What's the Deal with the "KU" Luger?

I bet you woke up with this on your mind

Hey guys! Today we're going to talk about the mystery of the KU Luger. Now that's probably something you woke up this morning saying, you know what I wonder what the meaning of the KU Luger is? And today we're going to solve that. 

 

It's also a chapter in our book

We're also going to put this as a chapter on our book in Third Reich Lugers. So if you buy the book, this video will add color to the description and we really need to add some color because the explanation it just needs a lot of nuance. So come on over and take a look over my shoulder and I'll show you some examples of the KU Luger. 

 

Three examples of lugers

Okay, working from my desk here I have three examples of KU lugers and we've sold quite a few more than these over the years. They are rare and becoming more and more rare because as people get them, they're putting them away just like every Luger, including Black Widow Lugers, the price has just continued to go up. They have some unique features which adds to the mystery. We look for clues as to who actually made them. So let me tell you what we know. 

 

Here is what we know

There are two variations and we talked about this in the book. The first variation is the KU After. And the reason it gets its name, can anyone guess? That's right, the KU is after the serial number. Here's one, again 1500 range, this one was in the 2600 range. KU after the serial, KU after the serial and then the second variation, the KU is before. But they're all KU Lugers. 

 

What is the meaning of the KU?

And the mystery is what is the meaning of KU? Who actually put these together? You'll see that the font, if you collect lugers you recognize right away that that font is bigger than I normally see on a luger. Well here's the side plate on a standard military Luger, and here's the side plate on the KU Luger, and these are beautiful guns by the way. 

 

We use to find out who made the KU Lugers

We look for different clues as to who made these. Like for example, this is the 42 code made by Mauser, you'll also see S42. Very rare to find, but we've sold KU lugers that are DWM marked. Most of them however are byf. And I believe all of them came from the Mauser factory. But even the DWM, when DWM went out of business, they sent all their leftover parts to Mauser, and then Mauser stopped production in 1942 and sent all of their parts to where? That's the question mark. Where were these made? Because these are made from parts leftover. This second one that has the byf, you'll see byf41, byf42, you'll see S42, 39, 38, 36. I've seen basically any Mauser Luger and very few DWM lugers. Any Mauser luger could have become a KU luger. 

 

Here's our conclusion

So our conclusion was remember, 1942 they stopped production. First, they made as many parts as they could so they could continue in production while they switch the plant over. And that's what they did. They began to switch the plant over to the p38. And they had all these leftover parts. Now they probably decided to put them together themselves but you know when you go to a car dealer, you want the brand new model, and I believe a lot of the German soldiers and officers all were clamoring for the brand new, exciting, state of the art p38. Not that they didn't like the Luger, but they knew that the p38 was an improvement.

 

The mystery still remains

So they were clamoring for more and more p38s, and so Mauser definitely put Lugers together after they stopped making the parts, but at some point they said you know what, we need to focus all of our attention on the p38. And therefore, they sent all these leftover parts and it had to be thousands of gun, we're up into the 4000 and 5000 range, so they had enough parts for four to 5000 more guns and the mystery is who put them together. 

 

Did we solve the mystery?

Now, I always thought and what I learned from collectors was they were put together by Krieghoff. And here's why we think that. All of the KU lugers have a late war, what I considered a Krieghoff proof but technically it's a Luftwaffe proof. Here's a close up of it, but you can see that is the Late War Eagle L2 proof. Now I consider that a Krieghoff proof and therefore I said okay, they took all these parts, they sent them to Krieghoff, Krieghoff  put them together put their stamp here and they also put their stamp right here. So there's a Krieghoff stamp here and here and sometimes some of the internal parts you'll see some Krieghoff stamps as well. I keep saying Krieghoff stamps but technically, they're Luftwaffe stamps. Let's take a look at this one. Luftwaffe stamp, Luftwaffe stamp, Luftwaffe stamp. 

 

Other characteristics

Some other characteristics is often they will have blank by bottom magazines. This is a magazine from about the same era '41-'42, blank bottom. When they are numbered they have a larger font much like this is a larger font. Here's one numbered and here's a standard numbered military gun and this is a KU numbered. They only did a very few of them that are numbered because when they put this number on here, this brittle Bakelite would often chip or break and so they stopped numbering them. They also sometimes I've sold a few that were numbered here, again, they're all larger fonts. Now the larger font is also a clue that it was not one of your standard factories. 

 

This is no recent mystery

But who put these together? I always thought that Mauser in my explanation to people for years, including some of you, was that Mauser sent the parts to Krieghoff, Krieghoff, assemble them and put the final stamps on them and these all went to the Luftwaffe. I do believe these all went to the Luftwaffe, so we're talking about maybe 4000-5000 guns went to the Luftwaffe. 

 

A letter from Heinrich Krieghoff himself

But we have this letter that I just came across recently. This letter is from Heinrich Krieghoff himself and he's writing to Harry Jones, and this is 1964. So Harry Jones, you think this is a recent mystery? No, this has been a while as long as I've been collecting 20 years, the KU Luger was a mystery. I thought I had it solved and I was pretty smug about the fact that I figured it out. But in fact, Harry Jones was asking Heinrich Krieghoff the exact same question back in 1964. Again, he's writing a book on lugers. His book is still available from time to time, you can find it in the used book section. We don't know what he asked, but the answer is, I got your letter -- I'm interpreting because His English is a little bit off but he's basically saying I got your letter. I'm sorry, I cannot interpret the KU. So he says, I don't know what the meaning of KU is. Never have we reworked or assemble guns from Mauser made parts, and never have we transferred Mauser disassembled lugers to the Luftwaffe. So he's basically saying, I didn't put them together and I didn't send these guns to the Luftwaffe, somebody else did. 

 

Not the KU Lugers but we made the PX Guns

Now, I would think, well maybe he would lie about that. And I'll get into that in a minute, that's another part of the mystery. And maybe his memory wasn't that good. But again, this is only 64. So it's not that long after the war. But then he also goes on to say he answers a question he's not asking. He said, we did however, assemble from parts, about 500-600 lugers for the American soldiers. And these are what we call PX guns. By the way, I talk about that in the book as well. 

 

What are PX Guns again?

PX gun is the military exchange, the Post Exchange, I think they it is. The PX was where you went and bought your groceries and things but they also sold souvenir lugers. And so Krieghoff is basically saying I had nothing to do with the KU lugers but we did make 500-600 px guns for the American soldiers that were sold. And we know that to be true. I've sailed some px guns, here's a picture of one. They're basically Krieghoff lugers that are put together from parts and sold to the American soldiers as souvenirs. 

 

If the man in the business doesn't know what KU means then who will?

So what is the meaning of the KU? Well, the only answer would be we really don't know. And by the way, this speaks volumes. He's in the business of making lugers for Germany during the war. And yet, he says, I don't know how to interpret, I don't know the meaning of KU. So the man who's in the business doesn't know the meaning of KU. There's a lot of collectors out there who very confidently say, Oh, I know exactly what the meaning is. And there have been some theories about they went to concentration camps, they were put together by forced labor, slave labor. And I'm sure that is partially true because almost every factory used forced labor. 

 

The question remains, where were these made?

But where this exactly happened, we don't know. There were a lot of police Arsenal's. Remember there was a Navy arsenal. Now they're no longer getting Luger's anymore so they're looking for work. There were police Arsenal's throughout Germany. They're looking for work. There was a [inaudible 10:00] arsenal making rifles. Any one of these arsenals could have made the KU, we just don't know the true meaning. Some of you will gladly tell us confidently that you know. I haven't seen any proof, so I'd love to see you prove it. Also, I said, this is a clue, the font being bigger. If it was done at one of the standard factories like Krieghoff or Mauser, you would expect the fonts to be exactly the same because why would they go get other dye with different fonts? 

 

Here is what we know 

So, the answer is, I don't know the exact meaning of KU but we do know that this was most likely put together at one of the many Arsenal's probably by forced or slave labor. We know that during the war, the German industrialists were looking for work. They were looking for contracts from the German government. It's really what's behind the whole story of Schindler's List and which is a true story. He was a German industrialist looking for work and using the slave labor in order to get things done that were needed by the War Department. 

 

I almost forgot

One other thing, see I was about to sign off but I remembered one of the thing that makes these very unique, not only the fonts, and by the way, I have seen them, they do have Black Widow bottoms, which are correct. They're not Black Widow, they are black Bakelite technically. Sometimes numbered, more often not numbered. But all the ones that I've seen that I believe are correct, always had the wooden grips. It's not impossible that they could have used black Bakelite but generally, I think they should have these wooden grips and these are in beautiful condition. Most of the KUs that I see are in beautiful condition, which could be indicate late issue, especially to the Luftwaffe, they may not have been used a whole lot. 

 

Another unique detail

But one other thing that I wanted to mention that makes these unique, no other luger, World War I, Weimar era, Third Reich era, no other luger did they put off four digits of the serial number. And every single one of these, the KUs will always have all four digits of the serial number on the inside of the grip. And both grips are numbered in this way. So that makes these quite unique and other evidence that it was done someplace outside of the normal factory. 

 

Sorry! We didn't solve the mystery

Most of you watching this video never even heard of the KU Luger, so you learned something today. For those of you who knew about the KU Luger, and we're hoping to solve the mystery, sorry!