Epic Assortment of .25 Caliber Walther PP/PPK Pistols
Welcome back!
Hey guys, and welcome to another show and tell video from the SOS Gun Show. Yesterday I posted a video of me walking around the show. I showed you a little bit of a clip from the booty I brought back. And by the way, this is not everything. There are a few other odds and ends, a lot of accessories and a few rifles.
It's all about the pistols today
But I want to focus on the pistols today. And I promised you I would go through and you can see here that I have them laid out on the floor. These are the ones I'm going to go through. Most of these are going to be for sale on the site. And things do move quickly because sales have been phenomenal for a whole lot of reasons, but sales have been phenomenal. What's not going to be included in today's video is a group of SA guns, actually, there's one NSKK. Here's a group of SA guns that also came in from a collection. I'm going to feature that in a separate video later this week. It's probably going to take me a couple days to put that together.
Wanna know how I get all these things?
But a lot of people are asking how do you find all this stuff? And I just want to clarify that 90% of the things that I'm showing you people bring to me. In other words, they know I'm coming to Louisville for the show, they call ahead of time and say I'm going to bring you a couple boxes of guns or I'm going to bring you a couple of guns. So we stand at our table and we meet and greet all of you. But people bring us stuff to bring back with us. So most of this stuff came to me kind of like a walk-in Wednesday it walked to our table and we brought it home. I spent very little time actually walking the show looking for things.
Why do people love Legacy Collectible’s?
So one of the reasons people come to Legacy is because we get such a great assortment. In fact, one of the first things I'm going to show you this morning is going to be an epic find of 25 caliber PPKs and one PP. So let's take a look.
Never before seen...
So here's what's epic. I have 25 calibers. Now, some people say they didn't make them, and let me clarify. We're talking about pre-1945. Actually, I think every one of these is pre-war. So it's actually pre-1940. Every one of these pre-war 25 caliber PPK's and one PP, I want to wait and do the unveiling because we kind of need a drumroll. So I have 1, 2, 3, 4 25 caliber PPK's. So you're watching this video and I can promise you, nobody else in the world has seen five 25 calibers at one time. So you are one of a limited audience and thanks for watching. But this is why you come here. So by the time we're done, you're going to be an expert on 25 calibers. Now, you may never own one; what's the price of these? They're going to be somewhere in the $15,000 range. I've seen them sell at auction for up to $15,000. And certainly years ago, I was selling these for about $12,000. So the price is somewhere in that range. You're going to become an expert because I'm going to show you exactly what you need to know about a 25 caliber. So let's take a closer look.
Let's begin
Okay, so the first pair that I want to show you are consecutively numbered. You can check it out. You can see this one ends in 046 and the other one ends in 047. One thing unique about a 25 caliber, and again, I don't know that anybody has ever faked them because you would -- I guess it at that price you could make a new barrel. It's in 25 caliber, and they didn't even have a logo for it. And so it's a standard logo, but you can see where it said 7.65, they just cut that part out and they etched in 6.35. And that's normal, that's what they all will look like and you'll see them. Here's another one. You can tell by the font, it was altered, but they took away whether it was -- they did have a 9mm logo and they had a 22 logo but they did not have a 25 caliber logo or 6.35.
Interesting facts!
Now just to give you some numbers, there's only 38 known PPKS, and we have four of them here, 38 known. Of the PPS much rarer only 12 are known; so 12 known PP s in 25 caliber and 38 known PPKs.
Unique features on the early pistols
So all of these, we'll check them, but I believe they're all 90 degree safeties, so they're all early. They have a finger extension bottom, I'll show you the magazine because they're unique. Now on the crown N proof, you know on the 7.65 by the way, that the crown N is here and here. A 22 caliber will have the proof marks here and here. Only the 25 caliber, and as we go through these, you'll see the proof marks are here and here. I believe that's without exception, but we'll go through them together and make sure.
The magazine is also unique
Now the other thing that's unique is the magazine. Let's take a look at the magazine. Okay, so here's what's unique about the magazine. And I see two general styles. I know this one is a factory one, but let me clarify. They never actually made a 25 caliber PPK magazine or PP magazine. What they did, if you look here, they took a model 8 magazine, see that right here, they took a model 8 magazine and inserted it into a 7.65 magazine. You can see it better here, this is a regular 7.65 magazine but inside is a model 8 magazine. This happens to have an open follower, that was an earlier model, and the holes line up. The way they did it, they inserted it, the holes line up.
Let me prove my point
Now let's take a quick look just to prove my point. Okay, I'm going to Ian from Forgotten Weapons for a while, because he's the one that always takes us apart. And so I pulled the bottom off. Let me put that aside. And then here's that retaining pin. There is a very small spring that was just cut, that's the regular spring inside but this is just cut. And then what you see in there, well, you tell me, that is a Walther banner. That's a model 8 magazine. And so all they did is they fit a Walther model 8 in there, and this is done at the factory. The only ones that I know are absolutely made at the factory are the small holes. But the story is then told that they only made a small number of these, and they ran out of magazines because everybody wanted two. So they went and made up some more. And again, this goes in here. And then this goes on top of that. And then I just slide the bottom on.
Look at the other style magazine
But this is the second style. These are the regular holes. And if I take this apart, you'll also see the same thing. A spring, and then a Walther banner model 8 magazine that slid inside a PPK magazine. So that's the way they look.
Yet a 3rd magazine style
And now here's the third one. And again, they're all early, no lip. This one has a thin lip, so it was a little bit later. But because these holes don't line up, I'm assuming that somebody put this together post factory. It might have even been, a collector who said I would like another one they're not that hard to make. But if you find one where the holes line up and original, especially the small ones, they can easily be $120 - $5100 just for the magazine.
Closing note on the magazine
So these are the three styles that I see the ones that I know that are factory small holes and no lip. Then the larger holes which I believe were made up after the guns, because they needed spare and probably factory, and then ones that were just put together by collectors who just took a model 8 and threw it inside a PPK magazine. But it works. Most people are looking for a rig with a spare magazine, so these have been made up more recently.
Here is the 3rd 25 caliber I have to show you
Okay, we saw the two consecutive numbers. This is a third one, you can see on the logo that this was added (etched in. Look at the fire blue, this is probably one of the prettiest ones I have. And you can see it's also really early. The others were 780 by the way, this is 778. Again, only 38 known. You can see the proof marks and the 25 caliber. And the magazine we've already seen is correct.
The 4th pistol on display today
Here's number four, it comes as a rig. So now that you're an expert on these, this is going to be an Akah holster, it's early and we'll pull out the gun. This is later than the other two. This is in the 879 range. You can tell that this is a real 25 caliber because of the placement of the crown N, there's the barrel, front strap is nice. Let's check out the magazine. This one is nice. Again I don't know if that was done at the factory or later. You can't really tell that that was added later, but they filled in with the white stuff so it isn't as noticeable. And this is a correct magazine. It's got the small holes and there's a magazine within a magazine so everything is correct about number four. Oh before I move on, let's take a look at the spare; and the spare is the larger holes. So actually this looks like they line up and probably was done at the factory. This does look all correct, but this has the larger holes, a 25 caliber magazine.
Drumroll Please - Pistol #5
Okay, here's the grand finale. One of only 12 known, this is a nice Akah holster again. Here is the PP. Notice the logo and you can see that that was added. Let's see if the -- notice the proofs. You guys are getting good at this, aren't you? You actually now know what they should look like. This is in the 776 serial range. So these are all like 1932 -33. They were experiment. These are sold commercially, they were not used for the military or the police but sold commercially. And evidently they did not become very popular because again, they made very few. All of them have the 90 degree safety, all the PPK's had the early 90 degree safety, and so does this. Let's take a look at the magazine. Oh, there you go, small holes. And it's a magazine within a magazine. This one will be exactly the same, but the spring because it's a longer magazine, the spring is just a little bit longer. But you will see the Walther banner logo on the bottom of the model 8 magazine.
Hold on! Something is wrong
This is the wrong bottom now. And let me show you what I think happened. And I'll fix this before I sell it. This is the magazine that must have come with the gun. It has no lip and it's early and it has the small holes. But somebody wanted a spare magazine and so this is all correct, they added this. I'll just put a flat bottom on this because the spare should be a flat bottom. Notice, if you don't know what I'm talking about, the thick lip is a later variation, the no lip is the early variation. So I'll put a flat bottom on this correct magazine. And then this one will go in the gun.
Should I offer this for sale?
And I probably will not offer this for sale just because it's one of 12 and I don't have one. So I feel like this should stay in my collection.
What's next?
Okay, so how cool was that. The next thing I'm going to cover might be even cooler for some of you because they're going to be SS guns. But the 25 calibers are much more rare and you may never see another one. So thanks for watching.
Thanks for coming by Subscribers
Now, the book. We had a bunch of subscribers came by and bought the book and took pictures of them. And we had a good chance to chat. But also at the show, I picked up four SS guns. So I'm going to go over those next. These were not previously in the book, they will be added. Actually, I think one of them had already been in the book. But let me go over to the SS guns that I picked up. Again, I did not find these to show. People contacted me ahead of time and said would you be interested in buying my SS gun. So these were pre-arranged they showed up and actually one was already pre-sold. That's the rarest of them and I'll show that one next.
I'll probably switch these around
But here is a nice black holster, it does not have black stitching. As a matter of fact, this is the way it came but I also picked up this holster and this is probably more appropriate for an SS gun because it's a black Akah holster with black stitching and there is a name inside. So I'll have to investigate that a little bit. And so this would be more appropriate and I could probably switch that out, I would put this holster with this gun. But here is a Walther PP. It's marked, it's the leading edge holster and here's the gun.
I can't believe they did that
This is actually a beautiful gun. Notice the fire blue and the condition of this finish, front strap and I'm saving the worst for last, Beautiful gun, very exciting and I'm covering it up but somebody maybe the vet put their initials CS. So CS, what an idiot. It's not ruined, but it doesn't help the value at all.
We'll be sure to add it to the book.
So as you will see in the book, the 202 serial range, it is numbered on the frame and on the slide which it is in the SS range and we could actually look up the contract number. I like the last three digits 800 and the magazine is also matching. So it has one matching magazine and it's the number two magazine. And as I said we'll add this to the next time we print and this will be made available, but I probably will swap the holster for this holster just because I believe this is more appropriate.
This is among the rarest
This is the next SS gun I picked up again this was pre-arranged. This is one of the rarest. The muzzle number RZM is one of the rarest. This is probably even rarer. Well certainly among the PPs this is the rarest of the SS guns because it is a P-under. It's in the proper range, if you look it up in the book you'll see. Actually I think this one it is recorded in the book. So I already had this one previously recorded and it was previously sold. There are dozens of you say I wanted a P under, and you knew I wanted a P under. I don't come across them very often but the guy that is buying this had pre-arranged and worked out a deal with me even before the show. And this one does not have a numbered magazine; no numbering on the magazine at all. But it is a proper P under. I don't know how many still exist, but that number is in the book, I just have to go look it up but I want to show you more guns.
Wrapping up the SS guns
The final two SS guns will be made available. The condition is not great. Let's do this one first. This has been refinished you can tell how this slide is filled in, it's a nice looking gun. It has kind of a dull blue finish. But it is SS, you'll notice numbered here and numbered here, made in about 1940. So it is a proper SS gun. And we'll go a little bit cheaper because of it being refinished, but it does have one matching magazine. The last SS gun is a K-under and again just a little bit of sportiness. But K unders are clearly SS guns, like the P under except with the PPK's it's a K under. There are far more of these than the PP and it comes with a non-numbered magazine. So the matching magazine is not there but it clearly is an SS gun. And we'll be making this one available as well.
A Party Member PPK
Okay, real quick. The next two really cool guns is a party member and a party leader. Let me show you. These are not particularly rare, but they made 30,000 of them but you can see the RZM marking there. And it is in the proper serial arrange for a RZM. Not muzzle numbered, so not SS but it was sold to a party member in 1934 or 1935. It has the proper early magazine. So everything about this is correct. And we will be offering this on the website and I'm sure it will go quickly. But again, this went to a party member you bought it. Just like you paid your dues you could you could buy a party approved PPK in 1934 and 1935 and that was part of your membership privileges.
A Party Leader PPK
The other one is a party leader PPK. Here you see the holster, not mint but I would say very good, if not excellent. There you see the Akah DRGM marking, you see the spare PPK magazine. Now let's take a look at the -- get the money shot is the grip itself. And just a beautiful party leader grip. No crack in the back like you often see and beautiful party leader grip. Crown N proofed, this was made in 1939. And again I've done many videos about the party leader. Serial range is 1939. And these did appear in the party catalog in 1938 and 1939. So this would be appropriate; of course, you could take this grip and put it on any gun but this is probably correct. It came home this way but it certainly would be appropriate to be on this gun. And unlike the party member, this you had to get permission, it was considered an honor weapon. Basically as an honor weapon, if you pay your dues and you're a good little Nazi then your group leader would recommend you to get the gun and people would buy the gun with the party honour weapon grip on it.
Are you having fun yet?
Okay, are you having fun yet talk about rare calibers. Let me just show you some of the more common calibers. Well first of all, let's do this one, because these are just nice 7.65 commercial guns. I'm just double checking to make sure. Yes, this one and this one. Let me show you these up close.
Some 7.65 Pistols
So for the common folk, for the rest of us, you and me included, here is a 7.65. You can see it's all part of the logo unlike this 6.35. Just a beautiful commercial gun and much more affordable. However the prices continue to go up. That serial number I think puts it at about 1936, a fire blue safety and this was the holster that it came in. Probably a guy's name there, German because it has an umlaut over the u. So that's just a really nice commercial gun, as is this one. And again 7.65 is common caliber. There you see the leading edge holster with a spare magazine. And you see the Akah marking with the DRGM, which is during the Nazi era. And this looks like Larry or Terry Wiener. Steiner, this is definitely Steiner and it's either Terry or Larry. Probably Terry Steiner, maybe the German who owned it and it does say Walther PP. Let's take a look at the gun; just another beautiful commercial gun. Just wiping these off and look how dirty they get. That's mostly just dried oil. So here you see the beautiful logo.
Uh Oh, I lied!
Oh, I lied 9mm, so this is a little rarer. There's a 9mm and front strap. Let's see serial numbers about 1938. Bottom release mag not the push button, bottom release mag and you can see on the magazine it does say 9mm. So we have 7.65, we have the 9mm.
What else do we have?
Let me bring these to your way check this out. Look at the finish on these things. So this is 22 caliber PPK with this extended magazine, they call it the box mag. That's just for the grip it does not add mag capacity because the magazine still stops right there. This is just a plastic piece, hollow inside. So it does not extend the number of bullets. That's good for those of you in California where you are restricted, but it is just more for the cosmetics and the grip. And so there again fire blue safety, now we have a 60 degree safety. Look how beautiful that is and remember I talked about the crown N being here and here. And just to confirm I know what I'm talking about, there's the nine millimeter with the crown N here in here and the 7.65 is that way as well.
A few 22 calibers to show you
Back to the 22 calibers, this is the 22 caliber PP. This is almost a plump finish, looks really pretty. A little bit of wear on the front strap but generally a beautiful gun and you can see the serial number again takes it to about 1938 and crown proofs here and here. By the way, there is another crown proof on the end of the barrel and you can barely see it but it is right there, and that that would be on all the guns. I forgot to check the 25 calibers but I'm sure they are proofed right there as well.
A highly sought after Pistol
I showed you quite by accident a 9 mm PP. This is not by accident here is a nice PPK holster aka logo with the DRGM and this is a 9mm PPK. This has got a little bit of wear, here has a nice fire blue safety, and you can see it says 9mm. This is also bottom release, they didn't do the button because it weakened the frame and the 9mm was a heavier load and would sometimes cause fractures to the frame. So they made it a bottom what release and this is also marked 9 mm. Now there's a bunch of you out there who want this gun because I regularly get asked about getting 9mm PPKs and they are very, very hard to find. This serial number is 1938 and you see the crown proofs here and here.
Just because it's really cool
One more I wanted to show you I just wanted to show you this because I think it's really cool. I went to the optometrist yesterday, had my eyes checked, and lo and behold, this gun, I had it for a couple of days and you'll notice it's doctor and that's a medical doctor Hans Noin something and I can't really read the rest of it. But my understanding is that says optometrist, so he was an eye doctor. Now I just think it's interesting in Nazi Germany during the reign of the Third Reich, we'll call it, I know people get upset when I say Nazi Germany. But during the Nazi era in Germany, even the eye doctor carried a pistol. He probably was a party member. And look at the condition of this gun. Now it is 7.65, beautiful condition.
Why would I sell this?
Holy smokes. Why the heck would I sell this? Just beautiful look at the front strap. It must be pretty early. I'm just covering the tag because it probably has the name of the person I got it for and everybody wants to remain anonymous. Oh yeah, it is very early. Remember I said the crown N would be here and here; on the earliest guns they did them here and here and actually 760 is one of the earliest PPK's ever made and also to show, first of all, we'd have an enclosed firing pin, we can't see that but I could show that to you. A 90 degree safety which is early. The grip screw goes from left to right, left to right, which is only on the early ones. And you see the slab side magazine, as opposed to this one. After the first year of production, they went to the indented, no idea why, but that was just a design change. You can see this is a solid color and not modeled like this. These were modeled, meaning brown and black mixed together. Here it's a solid color, which is only found in an early magazine. These early magazines by themselves can be $400-$500. Look at the condition of that magazine. So this optometrist did not use his gun very much. And that's a good thing because when I go to see the optometrist, I don't want an accidental discharge.
I'd rather you scream for more
Okay, I feel like I'm running out of time. The last thing in the world I want to do is bore you guys, so I'd rather cut it off early and have you scream for more. There's so many more guns I want to show you but I'm just going to show you a couple special guns.
Deutsches Reich's Postal
First is the DRP. Now I did a whole video on the DRP. There's a link below to that video. DRP is just the German postal department, so it's Deutsches Reich's Postal, German postal department. And no, the mail carriers did not carry guns but however, the Postal Inspectors. So somebody who committed mail fraud, or if they're doing investigation about stolen mail, or if you just don't pay your bills, they'll show up at your door. There's two variations, let me show you because I got one of each, it's kind of cool. They do come in separate serial ranges and they do come in a solid block. When I get around to doing the book on special contracts.
The Earliest Variation DRP
This is the earliest variation, so 908. The DRP has periods - D period, R period, P period. So that's the earlier variation. And the other variation, and most collectors want one of each, this is a little later 954. And let's see, the year would be about 1937 and DRP, with no periods. When I first started collecting, and I had one with the periods, somebody brought this by my table and I set up this one's fake because it doesn't have the periods. Whoever did it forgot to put the periods. Well, I since learned a lot. And so they have a whole block with the period, mitt and mitt uns. I don't know if that with or without onions, one of each.
I'll Close things out with an Eagle N
Okay, and the last one I'm going to show you again, I don't want to bore you it's in the correct serial range and it is eagle N. You can tell by the finish, it's a nice high polished finish. This is from about 1940 maybe 1941. Later in '41, the high polish began to dull down a little bit. So eagle N, started in 1940, high polish, it's still in 1940. But this contract is the eagle 359 not the Waffen Eagle 359. Here's a picture of the Waffen Eagle versus the earliest variation, which is just the eagle 359. I wanted to show you this one because it's just a beautiful example. They did not number the early magazines and it's presumed that this is not a Luftwaffe a contract. If it has the numbered magazine, then it would be a Luftwaffe a contract. And as a matter of fact, I showed you this gun in the last video. There's the Waffen proof, kind of verifying. It's actually a little bit sloppy, but it's an eagle, WAA359. And this has matching number magazine to the gun, numbered here and here. And then of course numbered at the bottom of the magazine indicating that this is a Luftwaffe contract and this is just an early army contract.
Check out the Pennant
And speaking of Army contracts, I picked this up actually Kurt, he does all our accessories. Kurt pick this up which is a pendant, I could say pendant and somebody else said pennant so somebody will correct me. A pendant that would go on your car and look at that you just screw it in. I think if you guys bought this and screwed this into your aerials, I don't even know if cars come with aerials anymore, and then just hung that up. I think it would make a real impression in your neighborhood. So we'll be offering this, not with a gun just by itself. You can see the plastic, so it had a plastic coating, which sunlight would crack it and break it off. And you see the same thing on the other side but I assume the sunlight kind of deteriorated the quality. This is just a cool little accessory that we picked up at the gun show.
That's it for today
Okay, that’s enough for today. I've got some small caliber rigs I want to show you and I got some essay rigs out there. So I'm going to actually get three videos just out of the SOS show for including the walk around. So make sure you like and subscribe to our channel. And stay tuned because I'm going to be doing more real soon.